FINANCE COMMITTEE MINUTES
Notice is hereby given that a meeting of the standing committee on Finance was held on Monday October 20, 2025 at 7:00PM in the Council Chambers, City Hall, 45 School St., Brockton, MA. The meeting was called to order at 7:02PM with eight members present and President Thompson presiding. Councilors Asack, Derenoncourt, and Nicastro absent.
- Reappointment of James Plouffe of 3 Carriage House Drive, Lakeville, Massachusetts 02347 to the position of Building Superintendent of the Public Property Department for the City of Brockton for a three-year term ending November 2028.
Invited: James Plouffe
Councilor Rodrigues motioned to Table and was properly seconded. The motion carried by a hand vote.
- Appointment of Juan Pablo Gonzalez of 770 East Ashland Street, Apartment 1305, Brockton, MA 02302, to the role of Auditor for the City of Brockton for a three-year term.
Invited: Juan Pablo Gonzalez
Mayor Sullivan: Juan has a lot of support here tonight from actually school folks and city folks. He is a Brockton product. Ashfield School North Junior High Brockton High School lives in the city of Brockton. His ability to succeed is collaboration but his grit and determination. He has had a really great relationship with Department of Revenue in the state. He’s had an exceptional relationship with the school folks and the city folks. There was a question brought up and I actually just traveled back to the states just a few hours ago, but it’s my understanding there’s a question brought up. Why wasn’t his position posted? The person in this role previously before Mr. Gonzalez deemed as an interim and then I put forward and he was confirmed. So, it’s a past practice. He is the most qualified. He has done an exceptional job. I think if we do not promote him, we will lose him without question to another municipality. I humbly ask of your support as we continue the wonderful progress that he has established within the department.
Interim Auditor Gonzalez: I am the acting auditor. Like I said before, when I was appointed as assistant auditor, it’s been a crazy ride. It’s been a very crazy ascension to this role. You guys have my resume. I think my resume speaks for itself. I guess what I have to say
is I had not many presentations, but that’s a three-year plan that in my head I had built out if I were to be appointed this position for a three-year term. A couple things. Obviously, year one would be just to fix a lot of the stuff that’s going on with the lack
of internal policies and procedures. In the second year, my role would be to modernize a lot of the systems that we have in place. A lot of the stuff that we’re using is completely archaic. And in the third year would be more to make sure that we stabilize our finances
for the long term so we don’t go through this crisis ever again.
Councilor Farwell: I am in favor of Juan’s appointment and I’m especially pleased that he has built a relationship with the school department and the people who handle finances on the school department and as a matter of fact as a representative from the school department here, attorney Kim Sai, I spoke with her just very briefly a few minutes ago and I said, “How is he doing?” and he has really done a remarkable job and we need
that partnership. I mean let’s yes, we are through what happened in fiscal year 2023 but we need someone who has established a relationship who will continue that collaborative work because it will serve the city well. Now to those who might say well he’s awfully young to be put in this position. He has a built-in support system. He’ll have a mayor. He’ll have counselors. He’ll have other department heads, John O’Donnell from the board of assessors, the chief financial officer, Dr. Clarkson, Marty Brophy, who was the collective treasurer. So, he’ll have a support system in addition to the Department of Revenue, Division of Local Services, if he were to need assistance, if he were to need help. So, I think for all the right reasons it’s very nice to have a qualified person who lives in the city who wants this challenge and who has already demonstrated a proficiency in how he handles the work at hand. So, I I’m really pleased and I appreciate the work that you’ve done so far. I appreciate the work you do for the accounts committee on which I sit an it’s as I say it’s just refreshing to have a Brockton resident qualified wanting to undertake the responsibilities of this job and wanting to serve the residents of the city.
Councilor Griffin: I also will be supporting your position and I just want to compliment you and the work you’ve done so far especially going over to the school side. That was always a problem. The schools were working kind of in a solo mentality. With the new leadership over there under the new superintendent and a deputy superintendent Sai who’s in the back of the room, I can see that really changed a more collaborative model which is desperately needed. And I think your addition to it is going to be very beneficial not only to the schools but the city as a whole because actually there really isn’t a city side or a school side. We’re the city of Brockton. We’re all together. We’re going to either make it or break it together. and I’m really uh glad you’re with us. I wish you continued success in your new position.
President Thompson: I really enjoyed our conversation a few days ago. During that conversation, I brought up um your specific and special relationship that you have to this city council. You know the ordinance states your reporting duties and you know your responsibilities to the city council. So, wonder if you could just talk about how you see your relationship with this council.
Interim Auditor Gonzalez: the relationship wise obviously as we know the city auditor has to report to city council when as you require or if anything goes wrong I intend on doing that if anything were to come up and anything were to go wrong obviously we have the accounts committee here that I always report to if anything comes up vendor related budget whatever the case may be obviously we have that in place I would always be reporting to city council.
President Thompson: because that’s a role that most other department heads. I don’t think any other department head has a specific duty to the city council as does the auditor. And so that’s a relationship that we, you know, that that we look highly upon and we’re looking to develop a closer relationship as you grow in your position.
Councilor Farwell motioned to recommend favorably. Motion was properly seconded and carried by a hand vote.
Councilor Asack stepped in.
- Reappointment of Oluwatoyin Adewumi of 123 Country Club Ln., Brockton, MA 02301 to the Brockton Commission on Women’s Issues for a three-year term, ending in September 2028.
Invited: Oluwatoyin Adewumi
Councilor Lally motioned to postpone to end of meeting and was properly seconded. The motion carried by a hand vote.
- Ordered: That the City Council authorizes the acceptance and expenditure of the total grant funds in the amount of $326,707.89.
FROM: EXECUTIVE OFFICE OF PUBLIC SAFETY AND SECURITY $326,707.89
TO: BROCKTON POLICE DEPARTMENT $326,707.89
Invited: Police Chief Brenda Perez and/or designee(s)
CFO Dr. Troy Clarkson
Sergeant Skinner: So, the training and incentive grant for $326,707.89 provides 16 hours of training for all of our officers, our dispatches and the fire department dispatches as well. It’s mandatory training by the state. State then offers the grant to pay for the courses and to pay for those 16 hours.
Councilor Lally motioned to recommend favorably. Motion was properly seconded and carried by a hand vote.
- Ordered: That the City, pursuant to M.G.L. Ch. 44, § 53A and 53A½, hereby accepts the following donation of $3,000.00
From: EASTERN BANK
To: BROCKTON POLICE DEPARTMENT
Invited: Police Chief Brenda Perez and/or designee(s)
CFO Dr. Troy Clarkson
Sergeant Skinner: this $3,000 grant has been donated by Eastern Bank. it really supports our first responder community jamboree that we hold every year. Helps defray the cost of this event. We do things for the kids like trackless train, snow cone machines, crafts, different things. The kids love it and Eastern Bank was very kind to donate this money to us.
Councilor Asack motioned to recommend favorably. Motion was properly seconded and carried by a hand vote.
Councilor Asack: Thanks, Eastern Bank for the donation.
President Thompson: On behalf of the city council, would like to thank Eastern Bank for your generous donation.
- Ordered: That the City Council authorizes the acceptance and expenditure of the total grant funds in the amount of $859,400.00.
FROM: OFFICE OF ENERGY AND ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS $859,400.00
TO: PARKS AND RECREATION DEPARTMENT $859,400.00
Invited: Superintendent of Parks Timothy Carpenter
CFO Dr. Troy Clarkson
CFO Dr. Clarkson: In addition to the information in your packet, I did
provide you your regular update over the weekend. as I noted, this is a grant through the Commonwealth’s MVP program, also known as municipal vulnerability preparedness, and it’s for the parks department to support a climate resiliency project at DW Field Park.
that really is to do some analysis and some flood mitigation and some other work at DW.
Councilor Asack motioned to recommend favorably motion was properly seconded.
Councilor Lally on the motion: This is the grant that requires a match. That comes from the parks funding, right?
CFO Dr. Clarkson: Yes. 10 I believe it was in the packet, but I believe it’s a 10% match.
Councilor Lally: Do we have on hand the total funds in that account? Like what do we got? What’s the balance of the account?
CFO Dr. Clarkson: I don’t have that off the top of my head, but I can get it. Tim and I actually discussed this and determined that there were sufficient funds before it was filed, but I’ll give you the exact amount before you vote next Monday.
Councilor Lally: I appreciate it.
The motion carried by a hand vote.
- Ordered: In accordance with the General Laws of Massachusetts, Chapter 44, recommending that the City Council approve the expenditure of $2,684.51.
FROM: COUNCIL ON AGING – PURCHASE OF SERVICE $2,684.51
TO: DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC WORKS – WATER $2,684.51
Invited: DPW Commissioner Patrick Hill
CFO Dr. Troy Clarkson
CFO Dr. Clarkson: we do get these from time to time. I think we had one last meeting. This is an unpaid bill for the council on aging being paid to the water department. As I noted in my email to you normally there would be a question of why are we transferring money from one department to another but because the water department is an enterprise the individual other departments do pay their bills and so this is to pay a water bill from last year.
Councilor Farwell: Just for the record, the reason this was unpaid is the invoice didn’t come in until August of 2025. That’s why it did not get paid out of the prior year.
Councilor Minichiello motioned to recommend favorably. Motion was properly seconded and carried by a hand vote.
Item #3 postponed to end of meeting: Reappointment of Oluwatoyin Adewumi of 123 Country Club Ln., Brockton, MA 02301 to the Brockton Commission on Women’s Issues for a three-year term, ending in September 2028.
Invited: Oluwatoyin Adewumi
Ms. Adewumi: I want to thank you for the opportunity to serve the last 3 years. It’s been an eye opener for me as a person to some of the issues around women and children in the city of Brockton. We’ve come to learn a lot about some of the basic thing’s homelessness and mental health. I’m an entrepreneur. I’m a social entrepreneur as well. Matter of fact, just got back from Nigeria, my hometown on a breast cancer awareness campaign across four states in southwest Nigeria. I’m a survivor. So for this term one of the things that I had worked with the chairwoman the outgoing chairwoman was to look at the state of women owned businesses in Brockton and see how we can synergize that power to bring more economic opportunities to the community. It’s going to be a long-term project to see how we can get more women to know what resources they have with the city and to also drive more young girls into entrepreneurship. So, for me coming back to serve an extra term is to help fulfill that agenda. That’s why I’m coming back to serve again.
Councilor Asack motioned to recommend favorably. Motion was properly seconded and carried by a hand vote.
- Resolve: Be it resolved by the Brockton City Council to invite Troy Clarkson, Chief Financial Officer, Mayor Robert Sullivan, and Juan Gonzalez, Interim City Auditor, to appear before the Finance Committee to discuss and provide an update on the current status of the FY26 budget and close out of the FY25 budget.
Invited: CFO Dr. Troy Clarkson
Mayor Robert Sullivan
Interim City Auditor Juan Gonzalez
Mayor Sullivan: I just want to thank uh Dr. Clarkson’s team. He’s got a phenomenal team, the CFO’s office. I have to give a shout out to Elvira and Andrew. I know that Megan McKee is here who’s an unbelievable asset relative to database tracking. So, the sheet that was given out was prepared when Dr. Clarkson and I were away. I’ve reviewed it. I think it really tells a strong story that you know FY25 has been closed out. There is within the circles of campaigns currently there’s boldface lies saying that we’re at a deficit. We are not in a deficit in any shape or manner whatsoever. So, I just want to get that on the record because it has been stated by certain individuals that the city’s in a massive deficit. That’s erroneous. But in terms of tracking the 26 spending again the next mayor whoever he is going to have six months of this current budget and that person is going to be in good shape because if you look the strategic expenditure management we are on track in the right way. But I think the biggest thing was that S&P standards and pores revised our bond rating. As you know S&P and Moody’s they don’t do that willy-nilly. There’s another city really close to us that’s just been downgraded quite a bit. So, the fact is the ship has been ridded by many people working together in collaboration. So, I want to give a shout out to Dr. Clarkson uh and Mr. Gonzalez as well because without their collective efforts and many other people we wouldn’t have this wonderful data tonight.
CFO Dr. Clarkson: I will echo what the mayor said, but also say to you this is something that we have asked for and uh I’m willing to continue to do to have regular opportunities to discuss the budget with you. It’s wonderful that the auditor is here as well and I’m happy to be able to say that for the first time or I guess we’ll wait until Monday to say it that Kim Sai from the school department was here tonight as well to show the teamwork that exists now. We provide you now on a regular basis, this updated budget report and the school budget report. This budget report, as you’ve now seen it several times, is sophisticated enough that it goes department by department and highlights areas where by the day if the percentage spent in any budget is higher than it should be as of that given day, it lights up in red so that you can immediately see what the spending trends are, not just overall, but department by department. I had Andrew from our team send you earlier today. These updated reports are as of today. So as of today, we have 30.68% through the fiscal year. As was noted we are at 32% 32% spent. Now, normally that would be a source of concern, but as you know, our debt payments are front-loaded at the beginning of the year. So, it skews that overall number a little higher than it normally would be. That’s why we provide you the detailed report. So, you can go through and look in each department and where their spending is thus far this year. I will continue to provide that to you on a monthly basis and look forward whether it’s on a quarterly or semiannual basis to have this on as an ongoing resolve so that we can talk about it so that the public can see that we’re talking about it and they can raise questions if they have them because I think we’ve created a pretty sophisticated and reliable tool to monitor that spending and that’s why that’s a big reason why under that FY25 close, we watch that spending very closely. So, we were able to finish the year strong and have a pretty significant surplus that becomes the foundation of our free cash for the next year and we still use that free cash to balance the budget. So, that’s important as well. So, I think all of these the trends in the one-page update that our team provided you, but then the detailed reports showa pretty complete picture of a city that is that is very strong financially and I’m happy to answer any questions.
President Thompson and Councilor Lally switch seats.
Councilor Thompson: the reason that that I’ve been filing these quarterlies resolves is to kind of go through the budget cycle. As we know there’s a cycle to our budgeting seasons you know throughout the year as our process moves forward. Just last budget cycle we approved the budget. Now we’re in our first quarter and so just kind of want to talk about this current first quarter season of budgeting where we are and what we can expect over the next month or two so the counselors can be prepared to you know see what the outlook is and prepare to listen from you and your department as you come before us so we can put everything in context. When I’m assuming as of right now we’re in that close out of fiscal 25 as we saw we had a bill come before us and I expect you know one or two will trickle in over the next month or two as they normally do. But where are we on the close out? What’s our how did how are we looking at fiscal year 25 how that process played out? You know what you know what are some of the lessons learned over this last cycle and maybe you can tell us you know where we are in the close out of 25 and also I know reports are due to do regarding those closeouts maybe you could talk about us submitting our end of year closeout report if it’s not yet been submitted when is it due and what’s our prognosis or the outlook of submitting that on time.
CFO Dr. Clarkson: sure, I’ll give you sort of the 30,000 ft view and then since Juan is here and he’s involved in those issues daily I’ll ask him to come up and provide some additional information. As we always talk about we’re always in three fiscal years right because right now we are closing out 25 we’re through one quarter and 26 and very soon we will start planning for fiscal year 27. So chief among our responsibilities now is closing out fiscal year 25. The couple of bullets that we mentioned the both the budgeted but unspent funds and then the total revenues if there are any in excessive projections form the basis for our free cash calculation. But in addition to that free cash, there’s probably the major document called the tax recap sheet and that’s something that Juan has been working hard on since before the fiscal year closed on June 30th. I can tell you that we are ahead of schedule where we were last year and Juan has been working very closely with the department of revenue and he provides me regular updates frankly on a daily basis about where our progress was, what the information requests are from them and how that’s going. So once all of that gets done and the tax recap is filed in a short number of weeks, we’ll be coming to you for the annual tax classification hearing and that as you know sets the ratio for the different classes of taxation that’s required to set the tax rate. But once that’s done, the tax rate will be set for next year and Juan if you want to just provide a little detail on the work you’ve been doing with do on the on the tax recap in the year close.
Interim Auditor Gonzalez: So, what had transpired last year was there was obviously as you guys know indiscriminate amount of turnover in the auditor’s office where our financials were delayed last year. This year the conversation I had with you councilor Thompson on Friday we are way ahead of schedule in our reporting and I know that the department of revenue and the calls that we have been in has stated that they want the balance sheet done by November 30th so our free cash can be tax rate can be set and free cash can be certified in December. Right now, the only concern that I would have is that in December when we get our free cash certification, we would probably have to go to council to cover use free cash to cover the deficit that was left over from the block the redevelopment authority mess that we are dealt and I think that’s in the tune of $1.6 million. That’s the only concern I have right now. Everything else in fiscal 25 has been successfully closed. we did close in a surplus and you know we’ll see what our free cash is whenever it’s certified.
Councilor Thompson: So, we we’ll have a longer conversation about probably a little later on when we’re discussing making that transfer but could you state that number one more time?
Interim Auditor Gonzalez: I believe it is around 1.6 million.
Councilor Thompson: Okay. And that’s obviously that would be deducted from the karma free cap projected what are they the understated. Yes. Okay. Thank you for bringing that to our attention. So, the tax cap is due on November 30th. You’re stating that we have every intention of meeting that deadline.
Interim Auditor Gonzalez: The balance sheet is the tax recap will be due just a little bit after because we can’t really set the tax rate until we have that deficit cleared up or else
it’s going to throw the tax recap off to where we really can’t set the tax rate because we would be over the tax levy limit. So, once we go to council, you guys hopefully accept that. Once that’s done, it brings us down that threshold, then we can set the tax rate.
Councilor Thompson: Understood. So that that would have to happen before the November 30th deadline.
Interim Auditor Gonzalez: It would have to after.
Councilor Thompson: Yes. Okay. So, as you stated Mr. CFO, we’re moving into the tax classification season. Can you tell us about what we do to prepare like as what we’re doing right now essentially to prepare that? Is this the tax cap process or you know what else is involved in preparing for the tax classification?
CFO Dr. Clarkson: So, the department of revenue has their own software that municipalities use to prepare for the end of the year and the beginning of a new year. And it is multiple pages of data, information from Juan’s office, from the schools, from Marty Brophy, our statement of debt, John O’Donnell and all of the work that he does in terms of valuation of properties. And so, it’s really a patchwork from many offices, that everyone gets all their information entered. And in fact, when everything is all said and done, even the city clerk has a role in signing on that dotted line that all the information has been entered. So, as I stated before, everyone is working very closely together. We meet as a team on a regular basis. Now that school finance team is staffed up, we will return to having them at regular meetings. So, the level as council Farwell stated or a little earlier the level of collaboration I think is at its best since I’ve been here and that’s almost 7 years now
Councilor Thompson: That’s great to hear. I mean that’s after our budget deficit. I think that was one of the biggest issues that we wanted to resolve as a city to tear down the wall between the city and schools and you know through my experience’s conversations both with school officials and your staff and everyone that uh you know that that that wall is essentially gone and we’re working much better together and I think the public should know that. I don’t want to get too far afield because we’re going to have you in every quarter and I know some other councilors may want to have a conversation but there are two issues that I would hope you could speak briefly to. Our health care costs
obviously, those are rising. I believe it’s a 14% increase. Could you could you talk about how that affects our budget? Does it affect our budget? I mean obviously our employees pay premiums. I know that we also on our side provide some substitution if I’m correct to their health care costs. How’s that affecting our budget? And then additionally our pension obligation. You mentioned it in the sheet that you provided to us about frontloading some of those costs. Could you just talk about how that’s all working into our budget outlook?
CFO Dr. Clarkson: Sure. So, this year’s budget this year we increased our health insurance rates by 14 .5%. As you know we are self-funded for health insurance purposes and that money is segregated and held separately from the city’s funds. We carry a substantial balance in the health insurance trust fund so that in years where our expenses outstrip what we’ve set aside we have money set aside for last year that happened and I can tell you that I believe every self-funded health insurance program in the Commonwealth and certainly the GIC was in a similar situation. There was a confluence of events that we’ve talked about here. Reduction in providers which meant an elevation in costs. The explosion in cost of GLP1 drugs like Munjaro and those other weight loss and diabetes drugs really had costs far exceeding what we projected. That was the reason why we recommended to the mayor and he approved increasing the rates by 14 1.5%. And that sounded drastic, but again, that was in line with what other self-funded programs and what the Commonwealth did for the GIC. So, what we’re seeing thus far this year in the first quarter is that that was a sound decision and that our costs are now below what we’re taking in. So, we’re back to a point where we are adding to our balance in the trust fund because that increase was sufficient to capture those costs. We have a
consultant that analyzes those, takes the actual health payment data, the actual claims that we pay on a monthly basis and analyzes those and does a calculation and gives us a spreadsheet that shows on a monthly basis how we’re doing versus our projections. So, for the first couple of months anyway, we have data through August. We’re running ahead of schedule, but the trust fund did have a sufficient balance to cover up the amount that we were in a deficit for last year. But when I say deficit, let me make this this clear. That was not a deficit in our operating budget that the system, the self-funded program is designed so that the trust fund could absorb those additional costs when they arise. So, but our health insurance budget pays the city’s 75% portion, excuse me, of those costs. And so, you saw that rise in the human resource portion of the general fund budget pretty significantly to cover those additional anticipated costs.
Councilor Thompson: So, does that mean that the city subsidizes 25% of the health care costs or just
CFO Dr. Clarkson: No, the city pays 75%, the employees pay 25.
Councilor Thompson: 25 Okay, had that backwards. Okay. Then you’re in our fiscal 26 budgets, you’re saying you were aware of these increasing costs and properly budgeted for that for that for that outcome.
CFO Dr. Clarkson: Correct.
Councilor Thompson: All right. And then as of right now, our call it a healthcare trust fund is operating, you know, expectedly and we’re not we’re not there would probably be no need to transfer any funds over into that account where we’re covered.
CFO Dr. Clarkson: I don’t anticipate that, but you know, health insurance is a is a funny thing, right? I don’t think I don’t know of anyone anyway that predicted what was going to happen last year was going to happen. We raised the rates modestly, but then there was just this perfect storm of events that caused costs to rise significantly, I think, throughout the Northeast, but certainly here in Massachusetts. We tried to mitigate that through the rate increase.
Councilor Thompson: When would we start seeing red flags like you know that we’re running you know we’re running low maybe the trust fund is not going to cover this when would we see that closer to budget year like budget time next year.
CFO Dr. Clarkson: certainly, I would well before the time when we present the budget to you because that’s you know later in the year we have those reports from cooking company on a monthly basis and so I’m happy to come back say after the first of the year when we’re halfway through the year and provide a report on where we’re at.
Councilor Thompson: Is that line item in our monthly revenue expense document?
CFO Dr. Clarkson: No, it’s not because the trust fund is separate. We don’t track that, but again, our consultant does and so if happy to provide that report to you as well.
Councilor Thompson: Okay. Yeah, I think it would be smart to do this after the after the year to see where we’re at. Lastly, pension obligation, if you could just kind of speak to that quickly.
CFO Dr. Clarkson: Sure. So, as we’ve discussed a few times at this meeting you authorized $360 million in pension debt. We issued 300 million. So, we have been meeting with a group of professionals including our underwriters and our bond council and others to investigate whether or not it makes sense given the current environment to issue that remaining $60 million. We’re working closely. I’ve been to the retirement board a couple of times. The mayor and I went recently and our underwriters from Stifel actually came out from Chicago and came with us. So, we’re discussing with the retirement board the potential for changing some of the assumptions. Just for instance, not to get too much in the weeds, but right now we assume a 6 12% return on the investments of that money that we provided. We believe a 7% return estimate is both in line with what other systems in Massachusetts and frankly across the nation do. So, we’re working with the retirement board on maybe adjusting some of those assumptions which would actually have a positive impact on our annual budgeted amount that we have to spend out of the operating budget to the retirement board. In addition, we anticipate having a discussion in the very near future with the secretary of administration and finance looking at whether or not it makes sense to issue that $60 million. It remains in approved but unissued debt and we’ll certainly keep you apprised on that. In fact, there would be a role for the council to play should we go forward.
Councilor Thompson: Just quickly, what would be the purpose of borrowing the additional funds is that I mean so since our projected percentage, right? The 6% that I think 6.2 was our original projection. You’re saying we’re at seven. So, we’re not we didn’t it’s not a bad investment. We’re not losing any money. We’re actually doing better than we initially thought. So, is it increased pension costs or tell why would we borrow the 60 if everything seems to be going fine with the monies we already borrowed?
CFO Dr. Clarkson: It’s a great question. So, when we borrow the original 300, it didn’t get us to 100%. In fact, we if you remember, we didn’t want to be because the last thing we would want to be would be to be overfunded. we’re 101 or 102%. That means we’re paying interest on money we didn’t need to borrow. So, we’re not yet fully funded. So, the question is if we borrow that additional money, will there be sufficient savings, right? And I know it sounds counterintuitive, but the whole purpose of the borrowing is to free up money in the budget and have budgetary savings because our performance is better than the number at which we borrow. so, we do I think believe that there is some advisability to that but we’re just waiting on a consensus from all of the folks that that advise us before we move forward.
Councilor Thompson: Okay, understood.
Councilor Farwell: I notice in a number of categories on the school side that we are
up quite a bit over the 30% spending level particularly in the area of utilities electricity. Now, I know you’re going to say that we shouldn’t worry about it because obviously we have sufficient revenues perhaps in other line items, but my worry is that in the aggregate if you if you are way overspending for electricity and in other areas in the aggregate that that deficit could get up to a point where it’s not so easy to offset. So, any strategies to deal with that or
CFO Dr. Clarkson: Yes. that’s actually counts for a very astute observation. As you know, for the last couple of years, we have been using some accumulated energy credits to defray some of the utility costs throughout the city. And in this year’s budget, we in some budgets removed those energy costs in these budgets because of anticipated use of energy credits. So, it’s still earlier early in the year and the DPW business manager who was handling that has actually left. I’m happy to announce that as of today there’s a new DPW business manager, uh Megan McKee. Megan will be working with Pat Hill and with my office and with Juan to distribute the energy credits sufficiently throughout the city so that we’re covering our costs and we’re not having any deficiencies in the budget.
So, it’s really just a work in progress.
Councilor Farwell: Okay. Last question. You touched upon it very briefly. What is the $1.6 million deficits for the BRA? what is the cause of that? What’s the genesis of that obligation that we owe? The reason I ask is that did a 108-loan g section 108 loan guarantee to Brockton beer and they were supposed to pay it back and now of course they’re out of business and I’ve forgotten the federal regs on whether we are liable to
pay back the federal government for the balance of the loan that they don’t pay off and maybe you know more about that than I do.
CFO Dr. Clarkson: Yeah. And again, I will answer this and then but Juan, please jump in and provide any additional thoughts. I know the term deficit can be politically charged. So, let me walk you through how that all works on the let’s call it the general ledger that is the city of Brockton and how we interact with the Commonwealth. When we get grant funds or when we draw down grant funds on our books that shows if we haven’t applied for a reimbursement for those grants, it’s essentially a debit on the ledger until we have applied for and received the reimbursement which is the credit. So, in order for the books to be balanced, those two numbers should even out and balance out. What I believe is the source of the deficiency with the BRA is that there were some drawdowns for some of the programs that were used, but their documentation wasn’t sufficient to then apply for the requisite credit. So those deficiencies are still hanging out there. I can tell you that since the city took that operation over, my team, Juan, Megan, Elvira have been working very closely with the planning department to understand the books to clean up some of those deficiencies. My team has been in touch constantly with HUD. So, but I believe as of now what exists is draws downs that occurred but not sufficient documentation to get those reimbursements to even that out. Is that correct?
Interim Auditor Gonzalez: Yeah, that’s correct.
Mayor Sullivan: I mean I just one other thing relative to HUD. We have the Boston HUD Ed Soares and we also have Washington DC HUD but because of Trump’s furlough right now of the federal government in essence the Washington DC is closed the HUD but we do have a gentleman named Ed Soares that Juan works with on a regular basis to try to rectify that. There was a lot of missing paperwork from the BRA and I’m glad we decided to bring it back in house. I think it’s going to first of all it’s going to be much more professional and we’re going to be able to work with HUD in a better manner than previously.
Councilor Farwell: I will gentlemen let me let me be somewhat clear on this. If there are funds that were drawn down with insufficient documentation as far as I’m concerned that should be investigated. We should know who drew down what in what amount for what purpose and why is the documentation missing. That to me is important. The other question that I would just ask you to research, what are we going to do with any 108 loan guarantees that are outstanding? Whether it’s Brockton Beer or someone else, will that become a liability to the city? And that if you could just research that at your leisure, I’d appreciate knowing that.
Interim Auditor Gonzalez: what I can say in regards to that is that CLA, our external auditor, we have gotten them to basically look at what transpired with the BRA and why we have this deficit on all three funds, which is the CDBG, the home program, and the lead program. So, they’re going to look into it with in terms of examining the general ledger and see what went wrong and why there was no, you know, either documentation or why they budgeted things the wrong way. All of that is going to be investigated by CLA.
Mayor Sullivan: Just to follow up on that, councilor HUD suggested that we either do an internal which is what Juan’s doing with all internal departments right now or external and we suggested do external and they were very proud that we decided to go that way. So, we’ve hired CLA external auditing for firm that we use the city but they’re not helping the city. They’re investigating the BRA component
Councilor Farwell: Mr. the mayor. I think that’s applaudable because often times what
happens is that something is missed but no one’s ever held accountable and that’s really, I think that diminishes the public trust in how we operate. So, I thank you for going external. I think that’s a good move.
Councilor Thompson motioned to recommend favorably. Motion was properly seconded and carried by a hand vote.
- Resolve: Be it resolved by the Brockton City Council to invite Thomas Thibeault, Executive Director, Thomas Plouffe, Esq., Assistant Executive Director and General Counsel, and Bruna Campbell, Compliance Officer, of the Brockton Housing Authority, to appear before the Finance Committee to discuss and provide an update on the 2024 Brockton Housing Authority Annual Report and to further discuss long terms plans and initiatives of the Brockton Housing Authority.
Invited: Executive Director Thomas Thibeault,
Assistant Executive Director Thomas Plouffe, Esq.
Compliance Officer Bruna Campbell
Mr. Thibeault: If I could thank the chairman for inviting me to talk about the housing authority. It’s one of my favorite things to do. I would like to apologize on Mr. Plouffe’s behalf. He’s on a family vacation that ends today. Miss Campbell who I hope you get to meet, a wonderful addition to our authority, is taking care of a sick pet. I just want to
thank this body overall for the support that you’ve given the Brockton Housing Authority in the last well over a period of time, but especially in the last number of years. Your support of the procurement home rule petition has made us able to move forward with the Campello project. Your letter of support to Governor Healey got her attention and brought her attention to Brockton. I want to thank Councilor Nicastro who’s not here and Councilor Lally for our trip to Cambridge to come and see the work that we’re doing there. I want to thank Commissioner Teixeira who in his former role as a board member
approved us to go on this road. Councilor Thompson had asked me to come and speak about our annual report of which I’m a proud the theme of that annual report is vibrant and impactful. There’re two things that we would want to do and I learned this from my mentor Richard Sergy. We want to make an impact, right? Whether that’s on a neighborhood, the city of the life of a single person, we want to make an impact. And to do that, you have to have some vibrancy. And I’m blessed with a staff that has that vibrancy. It’s nice to see if any of you know Vincent to Christopher, he has been with us for 52 years. This man shows up every day eager to go, ready to tackle things. So, it’s not just age. We have young people like Bruna Campbell and we have I’ll call our seniors and I guess that’s would be me also ready to go. So, we’re proud of the work that we’re doing. I think you should be proud of the Brockton Housing Authority. Now, I don’t say this uh as an accolade to myself because I stand on the shoulders of the people before me. We have had some wonderful boards, a wonderful executive director, Richard Sergy, who was there for 22 years in that role. Prior to that in the, role of a, board member, the Brockton Housing Authority has been recognized by HUD several times as an outstanding agency. We’re right now what’s known as a moving to work agency. A moving to work agency, there’s 3,500 housing authorities in the country. 100 are designated as, 139 as, moving to work. That gives you the flexibility to do what you think is best with your funds with accountability. Councilor Farwell, you just asked about that. You can take your money in one program, move it to another. You can also get waiver of regulations. You can talk to this body here. You can talk to local service providers. whatever the problems in that we are dealing with here in Brockton, the Brockton Housing Authority can despite some regulations that might prohibit it, propose that to HUD and move forward. There’re some very creative things that have been done throughout the country. There’s about 1100 different programs that have been done under this and the Brockton Housing Authorities now participating in about 10 of them. We are a high-performing rental assistance program that’s mostly known as section 8, but there’s many, many more programs than that. The section 8 program is very important to this city because we hold landlords accountable. Then they also take that money and reinvest into their properties, making sure that the neighborhoods stay vibrant. So, we continue with that. And one program, and I won’t touch too much, you do have our annual report. I hope you all received it. We just started a pilot program with School on Wheels. As you know, they’ve worked with homeless families to do after school tutoring and homework. They’re now working out of Hillside Village working with the Brockton Housing Authority. That’s the first housing authority in the state that they’re working with. So, we’re excited about that. It started, they did a recruitment on September 30th and they’ll go throughout this year. We’ll work with the school department on that also. I’m most excited to speak about the future of the authority. For those of you who have worked with me, I’ve always tried to be as honest as I could. The current status of public housing is substantially underfunded and it’s going to be underfunded by more in years to come. The state of Massachusetts is the most generous state in the country and they can’t afford their public housing. The federal public housing program, that’s most of the high rises, Hill Street, Roosevelt Heights, Earl Street, they are substantially underfunding in capital. They can’t take care of their buildings. And they’ve realized that. And if you see the if you had a chance to take a look at that report I gave you, we’re you know 90 billion hundred billion dollars behind across the country in in taking care of our buildings. Brockton our biggest need was the Campello Highrise. In fact, back in 1996, our chairman Timothy Cruz was presented with a proposal to take off the top five floors of the capital of the Campello Highrise because the building just cannot withhold with stain its height, its weight. It was built terribly back in 1972. So when I became the executive director in 2013, I realized there was something I had to do about it. First thing we had to do is get some money. So, we have done that and we have moved forward. This presents the city of Brockton, the Brockton Housing Authority, its residents with tremendous opportunities. First, we have a building that really needs to be torn down and it will be torn down. There’re two alternatives. We could rebuild or we could issue 400 vouchers, tenant preservation vouchers, which would just be a catastrophe. You’d have 400 seniors, disabled people trying to find one bedroom that don’t exist. So, we are rebuilding. The good news in September, on September 9th, Mass Housing approved our loan, our attached credits for phase one. It’s a three-phase program now. It’s very expensive. So, the state could not afford it in one phase. So, the first phase will be at the old self-help building 1362 Main Street. We expect to close in December and break ground in January. It will be 144 units, one bed, 143 one bedrooms, one two bedrooms with some substantial amenities. The second building will and that will be seven stories high. The second building will be if you’re looking at the Campello Highways to the right towards the bat out front, we’ll build a unit there of about 122 units in a seven-story building. We will then go around the back where the parking lot is and build the final building in phase three. This does something though, and I don’t want to get too much into the weeds here. It gives us the authority to take those public Okay, let me back up a little bit. Once we finish these, they’re tax credit properties. The Brockton Housing Authority owns the property. We will have ground leases for an investor who will come in and takes the tax credits and that will go for 15 years. At the end of 15 years, we will buy back the property. We they are no longer public housing. They’re managed by the Brockton Housing Authority, but they’re affordable housing with project-based section 8 stuck attached to them. We can take those units that we uh took down, the 198 building, and we can use them in other places. We are proposing that we use them to federalize our state developments. Our state developments are in very, very tough shape. Kennedy Drive, Rainbow Terrace. They were built in 5863. Very small walk half of them are walk up.
So, if you have any mobility issues at all, you can’t get there. So, there is what a program called Fairlo Cloth to RAD. The state is partnering with us on that. What that does is federalize it. Then it goes to rental assistance demonstration. You would tear them down, rebuild. I would recommend that it’s a two or three- or four-story elevated building so you no longer have walkups. You could have the same number of units there or more. They would be modern by today’s standards. You would create neighborhoods that people want to live in. If you don’t have neighborhoods that people want to live in, you have neighborhoods that only the most desperate will come and you have neighbor creating neighborhoods of despair. And that’s what we want to avoid. The plan that I shared with you is an outline of a plan. There’s a lot more behind that. I see it as the future of affordable housing in the city of Brockton. It elevates the quality. It gives more opportunities for people in the city. It should give you a broader range of people who were coming in and living there. I’m excited about that. In the end we are moving from one platform which is called the section 9 that’s public housing to the section 8 platform. We’re bringing in lots of outside money. Santander is our investor for phase one. There will be a lot more operating money coming through. In the first couple years, it’s about $5 million more a year of federal money coming into the city of Brockton. It relieves the state so that they can concentrate on their state investments in the city. I think it’s a win-win for all. It’s a lot of work. I have no plans on retiring, but this will go beyond me. We are laying down the foundation for that. So, with that, I thank you for the opportunity to speak this evening and we’ll answer any questions you may have.
Councilor Minichiello: thank you Tom for being here. You always do a great job. Question. How is the waiting list with regard to people that would seek the assistance of the housing authority? How long is it?
Mr. Thibeault: So, that’s a multifaceted answer. If you’re an elderly resident of Brockton looking for federal elderly housing, it’s probably two or three years. If you’re a non-resident, we’re not going to get to you. For the state housing, we do almost exclusively emergency cases. Those are people who are being made homeless at no fault of their own. That takes a couple years. We’re seeing a lot of, you know, as these multi families are being bought at these astronomical prices, right? the new landlords have to charge a lot more money. The old tenants can’t afford that. They’re being forced out. So, we’re seeing quite a bit of that. But the waiting list for a family a woman comes in and has a child and you know just can’t make the $2,500 a month it costs for rent. 27 28 2900 10 years.
Councilor Minichiello: Wow. Not good news.
Mr. Thibeault: Yeah. Well, we’re calling people now and finding the good news is we’re calling them and finding they’re over income because their need was 10 years ago. They’ve somehow got to a better place. We’re seeing quite a bit of that. When I say quite a bit, 20% of the people are calling us we’re finding are over income. There’s a gap there too, by the way. They’re over income for our programs, but they still can’t afford market rent.
Councilor Minichiello: In order to bring the list down to let’s say six months. How many how many units would you need to add to the inventory that you currently have?
Mr. Thibeault: Well, again, if you could say, and you know this problem with most social issues, if you could say we this is the city of Brockton today and we’re going to take care of Brockton residents. we would have to double the amount of housing that we have. But if you double the amount of housing you have and nobody else does anything else, you are now going to service the region. You’re going to So it’s the state wants to see that, right? The state doesn’t look at Brockton and say, “Well, we want Brockton. They want to take care of everybody in the state.” So the Brockton Housing Authority has been very creative and has been very adamant and in fact we’re going through it again right now saying we have a resident’s pre preference. We need a resident’s preference. The need in the city of Brockton is extremely high and to take someone from a surrounding town doesn’t make any sense.
Councilor Teixeira: Thank you Mr.Thibeault, to come before us. The work that you do for Brockton housing, it’s just amazing. I was there for as a commission for six years before I became city council and there’s no word to describe. The work that you do for Brockton housing and for our resident in the city but I got a question with the Campello Highrise. It’s going to be three-phase. What we’re going to do with the. You must have a plan. I know you do with the tenants because it’ll be phase one.
Mr. Thibeault: So, this is the it’s unique and it’s very beneficial to our residents. There’s going to be one move. We are going to build the 144 units in at 1362 Main Street and take everybody from the A building and move them in. There’ll be one move. The way we were going to do it when we were re renovating them would be move scatter them around the city then bring them back. So, it’s one move to the new place. They go from their existing unit to the new unit.
Councilor Teixeira: That’s great because not only it’s going to help the resident of Brockton because you’re doing the three-phase. So, we’ll end up with more apartments.
Mr. Thibeault: No, we end up with two more apartments. We tried to put some more units to people know the area 75 Plain Street is our inventory center. We were trying to use some of the land there. We could not. The flood plain where near the river that’s caused quite a few problems.
Councilor Teixeira: because the flood water that they play and you said you touch that it’s going to be an investor center is going to be one of the investors. So, oh, I’m sorry. As an investor, are they going to apply for the tips for the tax levy.
Mr. Thibeault: No, this this is a tax credit program. I would not be honest with you if I told you I understood the intricacies on that side of it. They come in, they buy the tax credits and they use them. So, we are selling our tax credits at 91 90 I’m sorry, 94 cents on the dollar. So, they make six cents per dollar. There’s huge dollars amount they’re on their taxes. So, Santander buys it and it buys down their tax liability. They also get CRA credits on it.
Councilor Teixeira: Oh, okay. Understood. Great work and keep our housing because I know you do a great work there yourself Tom Plouffe and Bruna also she’s amazing once in a while I’ll ask her because I get a lot of calls.
Mr. Thibeault: Thank you and know council Teixeira I’m proud I don’t like to when I first started we had Mayor Carpenter who was just coming into office. He was over at Caffrey Towers and he was delivering meals and both elevators broke. I said to him when we started, I do not want to manage housing where elevators don’t work, where people are trapped on a regular basis. And we figured out a way to do that and you were involved in that with using energy credits. I heard Dr. Clarkson speak about that earlier. But I think I’m a proud you know, anybody asked me where I’m from. I’m from Brockton. I’m proud of Brockton. There’s lots of things happening and I want to be proud of the housing that we offer to people. And right now, I’d like to There’s some things that I’m not proud of that I’d like to get a little better.
Councilor Teixeira: But thank you for the work that you’ve been doing for Brockton Housing.
Councilor Rodrigues: I like to echo what council Teixeira has said in terms of your workability and your staff and everybody else up there. We’ve had an awesome relationship from the association with your group. But the other day I was at the Bel Air Tower and I got an earful from a few residents in terms of the in terms of their safety. These buildings no is no longer just for seniors only. I guess there was some sort of a state law so that basically brought them out so that you couldn’t just restrict them to seniors only and there’s people there with mental health people with disability or some of the other issues residing in these buildings and it’s causing the senior population in those buildings to feel a little on the unsafe side. I think we actually had a mentally ill resident attacking a senior within days of my being there. So, that is somewhat concerning and I don’t know if there’s anything we can do as far as an author from an authority standpoint to, you know, limit some of the populations that we put with some very vulnerable individuals, very frail individuals to make them feel a little at ease. But there’s some there’s some real concern there with the with the residents at least in that one unit. I haven’t been able I went to a couple other ones, but that one in particular was the one that was more concerning at least from the residents that I spoke with and there was quite a few of them that basically said the same story over and over where they would have to kind of lock themselves in their little apartments ahead of certain times because of these safety concerns. And that was a little concerning. And I also found out that we no longer have a police presence in those police present presence in those in those buildings as we used to. And that’s something concerning. So, I’m hoping that we can come up with some sort of a solution at least to ease the stresses that some of these residents are feeling residing on those in those complexes.
Mr. Thibeault: the situation that you describe in in Belair Towers is 269 units right now.
We have two problem residencies there that are really turning the place upside down. Prior to the passing of Richard Gocher, he was working closely on it and trying to move these families along. Councilor Farwell, I was reading our 1994 annual report a couple weeks ago and your name was mentioned. you started the coped program, community policing for elderly disabled developments. That program has been fabulous and really addressed most of those issues. It’s community policing. The police officer knows the people in the buildings. And by the way, it’s not always a resident. It’s often a resident’s son or daughter who’s has a substance abuse issue. They start showing up. It maybe we’re seeing quite a few seniors who are having substance abuse issues and they have friends. You also have formerly homeless people whose friends are homeless and they bring people in and we deal with that. They don’t meet the criteria for a rapid response police officer to show up. They think about the calls they’re getting in. They’re not going to show up because someone’s making a lot of noise next door. they’re partying or whatever. The community police did or if they didn’t show up that night, they showed up the next day. They would they would have a conference, a hearing. It was quite an event. And we still do these. We just don’t have the resources that we had in the past because of the number of police officers you have. So, I would uh say that we hire details all the time. We use them in that way. We have officer DePina who’s wonderful working with us. He’s actually the police officer in the neighborhood. He lives in Roosevelt Heights. It’s a program that we’ve had for a while, but we he knows our residents and we bring them in to deal with that type of thing. But I the community policing program addressed those things and act and the police officer in uniform being in the building made the residents feel a lot safer. The other part back in about I think it was 2014 they changed the Corey laws. They have really washed the quarries. We go through a person comes through we say yes, they meet the criteria a police officer will say to us you know in the next couple months how’d that person get in and we’ll have a clean Corey says nothing. that was done on purpose and so we have to find ways to better vet the candidates because we’re not getting that type of information. So that’s again I’m being as honest with you as I can. And then I want to say the vast majority of people who come in are wonderful people. 269 units. There’s two problem units at two that that I’ve been working on at Blair Highways.
Councilor Rodrigues: But again, that leads me to if you know that there’s two problem units, why aren’t they not getting evicted? I mean, that happens in in private properties all over the place. If somebody is a troubled tenant, you usually evict those tenants and sometimes it’s guilt by association. It’s not you directly, but if you have a family member that comes in and then there’s several calls to that same unit on a regular basis, there’s a process that needs to be taken to deal with those issues because, you know, it’s that old the old, you know, rotten fish theory. You know, you’ve got 260 plus units and you’ve got two units that are bringing the whole complex down in a sense. I think it’s important for us to, you know, deal with those individuals. I mean through a warning system, through
something to say, “Look, we cannot continue to do this.” I mean, there was a woman that told me that she was basically she had to run through her through the building because there was some gentleman that came in. They were looking for a specific unit and it’s one of those troubled units because that’s one of the what one of the managers said to me. And if that’s actually taking place, then those people, they should lose the rights to have housing, you know, and I know that we’re going to run into issues about, oh, people with mental health, people with this, people with that, but we need to remember in this country, your rights end where mine begins. And that needs to be held. And basically, someone has needs to speak for the law-abiding residents of that complex that if these others are not going to behave or abide by the laws or the rules and regs that exist, they should not be in there because I’d rather uh stick up for the residents that are law-abiding than these individuals who are, you know, in trouble for that everybody knows about.
Mr. Thibeault: I agree with you 100%. the two families that I’m or two individuals that I’m mentioning are under eviction. Private landlords can go to court. They’re treated a little bit differently. The way we they created housing court because we were going to district court and we were I guess too successful. I’ll go back to Council Minichiello’s question. One out of four, three out of four people who ever apply we never help because we don’t have enough assistance to help them. So, you’re absolutely right. We need to help the people who are law-abiding. When we go to court, there’s many different processes. Remember, the Department of Transitional Assistance puts a person into a shelter. That shelter works and they’re all working under HLC, Housing and Livable Communities, to get into housing. If housing is successful at evicting them, they go back to the DTA and they go back in the circle. The housing court tries and puts up very large barriers for us to get over that private landlords would not have to go through. We do unfortunately we do on a regular basis. There was a truck outside my office last week moving a problem tenant out. We will continue to do that. I believe very strongly if I go to my family developments, I want people to be able to walk through there and feel that uh feel very safe. I know I do. The elderly is a little different because they have those enclosed hallways uh those um lobbies and obviously they’re frailer and susceptible to crime.
Councilor Rodrigues: Yeah. But we can’t we can’t let the lawlessness run our communities, right? You know, the number one issue that we face out there is public
safety, but when it’s happening within the homes of our seniors, and folks that are frail, in some cases veterans that actually fought and defended this country. And we’ve gotten we get people from the outside coming in, you know, running amuck and causing all kinds of disturbances and stuff that’s just cannot be tolerated. And you know, be it as it may, but we have to kind of put our foot down and send a message that this is not the type of behavior we want to be, you know, especially with frail a frail population like we had.
Mr. Thibeault: Yeah, that message is being set. as I said it, I know that we are meeting I’ll meet with those resident’s tomorrow morning at the Campello Highrise that we’ll all gather all our tenant presidents and we’ll speak. This will be on the agenda. We are sending that my message. We are being somewhat successful. Remember the courts were closed down for two years because of COVID. You could not go into court regardless. Number of people decided that meant they didn’t have to pay their rent and we’re catching up on that now. But it it’s something we’re pushing forward. Every other Tuesday we have an attorney who we hire in our offices. We just have all day conferences and the conferences are either you’re going to do what you’re supposed to do or we’re going to court. you’re going to do what you’re supposed to do or we’re going to court.
Councilor Rodrigues: Yeah. See, I know you probably don’t see it that way. I’d rather have someone not pay rent and not harassing seniors versus someone who’s harassing seniors and paying rent. So, that’s how I feel about it.
Mr. Thibeault: Well, usually if they’re harassing, they’re not paying rent.
Councilor Rodrigues: Well, thank you for the work that you’re doing. Please keep up the good work. Thank you.
President Thompson: I did file this resolve. I just have a couple quick questions and again thank you Mr. Thibeault for coming this evening and sharing a lot of important information. You stated that the BHA is going from a section 9 model to a section 8 model. So, I assume section 9 is where the state’s paying you directly for the unit and then section 8 is the tenant paying you for the unit. Is that correct?
Mr. Thibeault: it’s just a different subsidy model. So, the section 9 model is a formula-based model where they say this is how much money we think you should get every year and then that from that formula they fund it and it’s usually at about 90%. So, you’re not getting the money they say that you should be getting on the section 8 model that’s a private model. The private landlord says I charge $2500 for rent the person’s going to pay 500 so the federal government will pay me 2,000. it gives you much more money to invest back in the property. The Hamilton Wade and Douglas House have been on that model since the late 80s when they were built.
President Thompson: So, you believe that’s a better model for the city of Brockton, right?
Mr. Thibeault: So, right under the uh formula model, when it breaks and becomes an emergency, you seek funding for it. Under the section 8 model, you have a sinking fund and you say, “I put a roof on this place. It’s going to last 30 years. I need to save the money for 30 years. I know the electrical system is going to have to be replaced after 50 years. I’m going to have the money for that. So, uh you put together a budget, a performer that anticipates that. On the other side, it’s where’s when’s the emergency going to happen?
President Thompson: Right. Okay. Um you spoke about our buildings or some specific buildings being accepted for federalization. Can you explain didn’t really understand federalization. You say in our federal the buildings that are under federal control seem to be um lacking resources from the federal government. Why would we be federalizing additional buildings?
Mr. Thibeault: Yeah, that that let me be clearer on that. So, the federal buildings suffer mostly because they don’t have the capital money coming in to make the large repairs to the building, but they do fund the operating fund, the day-to-day maintenance of that at um, about 40% higher than the state. So, when you federalize, you go you get an immediate bump. And then we’re saying once we go to federal fed, it’s federal. We will then leave that and go to the section 8 platform. The state will have to pay for that. They did it. We have federalized Roosevelt Heights. That used to be state. And we federalized um the Bair Highrise. That used to be state. The uh the state of Massachusetts came up with a couple million dollars for new windows at uh Bair prior to us doing that. and they came up with about a million dollars for Roosevelt Heights to make enhancements there that the feds said, “Hey, we won’t take these buildings unless you do this.” So, it’s a fairly sophisticated financial transaction that requires the state to invest, but once the state makes that investment, they’re done. It’s now the federal’s responsibility to take care of it after that and then uh the housing authorities.
President Thompson: Understood. Then lastly, you mentioned it briefly earlier, but, one of my favorite places in the City of Brockton and Caffrey Towers. I understand, we did a renovation of building A. looking, where are we on the renovation of building B or has that begun yet or where?
Mr. Thibeault: Yeah, we’ve done we we’ve done risers. We’re doing risers. At one time, we did uh the um the B building all at once. We’re now doing risers. So it’s eight units per riser, not 16 units. We do the wet wall on the way up. So, we’re slowly going through that. By the time we’re finished, we’ll have to go back to the B building.
President Thompson: Okay. What about the elevator and B? I know that was down for a little while, maybe earlier this year. How we doing there?
Mr. Thibeault: Fine. So, the brand-new elevators the person hung some clothes up on a sprinkler head. It was flooding their unit. They were right across from the elevator and they took their squeegee and they squeegeed it all into the elevator and it created about
$120,000 worth of damage. Components had to be replaced. I mean it was a substantial issue. It wasn’t an elevator issue really. It was a flooding of the elevator from Sprinkler head.
President Thompson: But I know we kind of robbed a little from Peter to pay Paul in in the operation of that bill and we had to take a me understand it was a few parts from one elevator to help operate the other but we’re 100% on both elevators now.
Mr. Thibeault: That was to get them up as soon as possible. No, they’re back and running you know with there been fine.
President Thompson: I haven’t got a call from Caffrey Towers in quite a while on their elevators. Great location. and I love visiting. For all your information, I believe there’s a candidate night on Wednesday evening over at Caffrey Tower. So, please those you know who are able to join, please do so.
Council Asack: Good evening, Mr. Thibeult. Thank you for your annual report. Sorry I missed your annual meeting this year. It’s usually one of my favorite events, but I would like to just follow up with Councilor Rodrigues’s comments on Bal air Tower. So, these are things that we’ve been dealing with for a number of years this year. I know that Mr. Ripley, who is a new tenant in the building, called me about the same issues that councilor Rodrigues brought up. I know this past year we lost officer Goucher and the tenant president, John. They both passed away. So, I’m send my deepest condolences to their families. We had been working with Officer Salamone. We did set up a few meetings where we did kind of like a try to figure out some sort of a not a crime watch, but to kind of stay on top of the concerns that the tenants had in Bal air Tower. But I know things have gotten a little they’ve gone in different directions. So, I would just like to ask whatever that you know comes up or if you can keep me updated as well with what is done in the building. I do get a lot of calls. I haven’t bombarded you with them. Just because I know there are certain things there are some things that we can take care of and other things that you know that are just a bit out of our hands. But I would just whatever I can do on my end. I know that, you know, we’ve had meetings, we’ve met with some of the tenants there and we’ve tried to find solutions. I know one of the things the other things that came up was the security company that you guys hire because there hasn’t been a police detail in a while. It’s the you have the security that’s at the front. I know that there were some questions about if they could be a little more instead of just being sitting at the desk, if they could walk around the building, it would maybe help. um you know, enforce some of the uh rules or keep an eye on who’s coming in and out of the building. I think that would help. I don’t know where we’re at with that. But once again, like whatever we can do, I know that the police chief was also involved in some of the meetings and um Officer Salamone kept us up updated. But since the passing of those two people this past year, it’s been kind of we don’t have I don’t know who the new tenant president is even in there. Nobody’s contacted me besides Mr. Ripley who was taking a lot of the calls from the tenants. So, I would just like So, all this just if you can keep me updated as well as councilor Rodrigues. Thank you very much.
Mr. Thibeault: A couple things. The new lieutenant president is Mario and I’m going to I I’ve forgotten his last name, but I’ll see him tomorrow. Mr. Ripley does not call me. I don’t know why he has my phone number. But please I believe all councilors have my phone number. If something comes up, let me know. Don’t assume that I know. I although I try to get out there, as I said, I’ll meet tomorrow with all of our residents, tenant presidents, and the resident advisory board to try to keep a pulse of that. We do
have a new security company. I don’t think the last security company was bad. The hours are horrible. 7 to 3 in the morning. They have some turnover. And the last company is anytime we had a complaint, they would respond and address it. We have I’ve met personally with the new security company, told them exactly what I expected. We have our nighttime security coordinator out there every night checking on them, making sure that they follow their site duties. We have a site book. So, if at Bal air they would prefer them to step away from the front door periodically, walk the hallways, go into the stairways, go into the parking lots, we will instruct them to do that. You know, at and at random times. We don’t like to have them do it at the same time all the time because people are watching. Then the final thing and I have to go back to the community policing. I am a big proponent of community policing. I don’t know if you know my father was a police officer. So, I have a special love for that. My father would talk about
the people he arrested as friends almost. He’d say, “Well, so and so is not doing too well. You know, we have blah blah blah blah.” But he knew who they were. He knew their families. And I that’s so important with policing. Again, I understand the rapid response.
You need it. things happen, they have to come. But the community policing really made our places a different place. It empowered the good residents. The good residents felt that they didn’t have to hide. So, anything we can do to get that back would be greatly appreciated.
Council Asack: Well, thank you. I do call you anytime we have a problem. You always take care of it very quickly for us. So, one of the big concerns that Mr. Ripley had was the doors weren’t closing and that was taken care of very quickly by people at the housing um at Balair’s housing authority. So, it Thank you.
Councilor Asack motioned to recommend favorably. Motion was properly seconded and carried by a hand vote.
Councilor’s Recognition:
Councilor Farwell, just very briefly for the public, building commissioner James Plouffe has been hired, I understand, into a state position. I am very pleased. He is someone who worked very closely with us when we created an inspectional services department. He has served the city with distinction. He’s always been a gentleman to deal with and I wish him well in his in his new position. it may be somewhat of a pay cut, but I think overall working for the state, knowing that particular unit, knowing the retirement system in which he’ll be located, I think it will give him an opportunity to apply all of the technical knowledge that he has gained and the certifications that he’s been awarded and do a great job for the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. So, I wish him nothing but the best of luck.
Councilor Lally: earlier this evening I was in East Bridgewater for the East Bridgewater Board of Selectman meeting. They took a moment at the beginning of the meeting to acknowledge the completion of a project that they had done to expand some area on Route 18 for development. That was made possible due to an intermunicipal agreement made between the town of East Bridgewater and the city of Brockton for some of Brockton’s sewer capacity. So, they took a moment at the beginning to acknowledge the completion of the project and they had reached out and invited me at the time to you know be there on behalf of the city of Brockton to thank the city council for their support and for their vote and to thank the mayor for you know agreeing to the IMA. They expressed their appreciation and they asked me to pass that on. So, I wanted to take a moment at the end of the meeting to reflect that.
Meeting Adjourned: 8:30PM